He hung 2 SEALs and an Ambassador out to dry - conspiracy-murder and I don't care how many cracker jack medals he wears - his selfish failure to act led to their deaths - inexcusable.
-
This commment is unpublished.Rudy
My mother taught me that unless I had walked in another man's shoes I should never demean him. The General spent over 40 years in the service of his country, wounded in action, survived a bad parachute jump and cancer, then you make a snide remark about the "crackerjack" medals he wears. I am one that wears some of the many medals he wears which I won the hard way and I represent the millions of active duty, retirees and veterans who have also won those medals honorably. You, sir, have demeaned and insulted all of us. You have no honor at all nor are you fit to kiss his jockstrap.
Paul Garner
TSgt (Ret), USAF-
This commment is unpublished.He spent 40 years in the service of his career. He was a military bureaucrat that sent other men out to do the fighting and dying. The majority of the medals in his ostentatious display were earned by the effort and sacrifice of others, for which he took the credit, as 'leader'. Your mother was correct, however, officers above lieutenant don't lead, they direct, often far above or from the action.
Battles are not won by generals, or by tactics; but by Men, and with Blood.-
This commment is unpublished.Seems to me you forgot we all joined as volunteers and that the main mission of an Army is to fight and defend. People tend to die in wars bud, and last time I checked people don't enter the service as generals - he did his time before joining the bureacrats. Crackerjack medals huh? Sore 'cause you didn't earn many?
-
This commment is unpublished.I assume this was meant for me... When he and I went in, there was still a draft, and both of us volunteered. I would assume he was career oriented from the start, I just wanted to act out what I had seen on TV all my life. I honestly don't know what his early career was like, if he was in combat, or a staff officer. I did notice he was wounded in a training incident, not combat. I think he was always administration material... it was his forte'. I do take issue with people who don't fight having chests full of medals, and the fact that in the same action, officers always receive higher awards than the enlisted men that took the fore. I got some medals, Purple Heart, Air Medal with a V and 50 device for hours flown, Cross with Palms from Vietnam for flying at the siege of An Loc. Some others, not many. Medals weren't my interest.
-
This commment is unpublished.Good Lord, Lawrence, it's a simple task to check wikapedia (for one) before you start condeming the man. The greatest Militarys in history were great because, they had great leaders.
-
This commment is unpublished.I wasn't condemning him, as so many others have. I'm saying he was an administrator, not a fighter. I'm also wondering when they started giving ribbons for administrative achievements. It's not only Petraeus, it's the whole officer 'give-your-buddy-a-medal' thing, so all these desk jockeys walk around with medals down to their waist.
Further, I don't condemn, or even look askance at his affair. It has been said that both Petraeus and Broadwell are Alphas. Alphas are intensely sexual, it goes with the job description. Look at Paula, look at Holly. One was obviously offering something the other wasn't, probably for a long time.
How is it that countries without 'great militaries' are able to avoid being embroiled in wars?
Reading on Wikipedeia, he has been in combat zones, but not in combat, by which I mean facing enemy fire. It says he led his division through fierce fighting, but I'm willing to bet that he directed his division through fierce fighting. Patton was the last to actually get up on the front lines during fighting. He was wounded in a training accident, when someone tripped. He was injured in a civilian skydiving accident.
In reading about his awards, a Bronze Star with a V is noted. V is for an act of heroism. How he managed this in a non-combat role, it's not said. Also, Four awards of the Legion of merit, for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements. It seems that the higher the non-combat awards go, the fancier they get. With the exception of the Bronze Star, non of his ribbons are even remotely for combat. I was erroneous in saying his ribbons were earned by the effort and sacrifices of others, I assumed they were combat awards.
I do not demean his abilities and accomplishments, nor his affair. I point out that much is made of calling people leaders, which means in the front, as in 'Follow Me', when in fact they are directors, which is done from the rear.-
This commment is unpublished.[quote name="Lawrence Neal"]...much is made of calling people leaders, which means in the front, as in 'Follow Me', when in fact they are directors, which is done from the rear.[/quote]
I love that sentence. It applies in many non-combat situations.
It is so rare to see anyone try to find facts, and acknowledge when they don't agree with one's initial opinion, that I wanted to offer some encouragement and thanks to Laurence.
Faced with the choice of changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. — John Kenneth Galbraith -
This commment is unpublished.Lawrence, it looks like you've lessened the fire a bit since you're initial comment, and I can understand your perspective.
One observation, though - the military today is much, much different than that of Vietnam. I mention this because many of my father's generation noticeably turn cold when they learn I'm an officer (active duty infantry, 7 deployments since 2001). The fact is the relationship between officers and NCOs, and how officer's see their responsibilities in the fight, is simply not the same now - with an all-volunteer force and 10+ years of combat. My perspective - and of course it's a large Army, and the Infantry/SOF unit's I've served in have particularly competent people - but NCOs are highly respected, if not idolized, while officers consider it their absolute duty to "lead from the front" and play a worthwhile combat leadership role. This includes at ranks above LT - every BN and BDE Commander I've served with put themselves in at least as much - if not more - danger than their Soldiers, on top of the "administrative" (or really the staff/targeting) side of running the war. They're not kicking in doors, of course, but they're on patrols, they're driving the IED-ridden roads, etc.
The role/responsibilities I think are clear enough, and the responsibility of leadership taken seriously enough, than there is a considerable amount of trust between the officer/NCO sides of the house. It is not adverserial. I'm sure there will be dissenting examples - there always are, cynicism is flows freely when you match a new Specialist with a knuckle-headed butter bar or something - but I think my experiance is representative of the overall culture.
Regarding P4 - I don't think anyone who knew him or studied his career would say he's done anything but try to help the Army and do his duty. When combat started he was a division commander - so of course he wasn't kick doors. He was, however, probably pulling 18+ hour days for the next 11 years, deploying more than most other people in the military, and sacrificing every bit of himself to get the job done. That is admirable, and I think he earned the accolades he received. The few chances I've met him he was incredibly considerate, thoughtful, and helpful - and he followed up personally with an email on a question we discussed (I was a junior CPT at the time). He did the same with NCOs/junior enlisted.
Apologies for the ramble... Just my .02. Perspective is important.
My thanks for your service - Happy Veteran's Day (belated).-
This commment is unpublished.I apologize for the late reply, got busy, then an email virus running through Yahoo. As a side note, I would caution everyone against clicking on links when nothing much else is in the email, even when it's from someone you know. As soon as you click on the link, it sends itself to everyone in your address book. If this happens, you MUST change your email password, or problems with your email will start in a couple of weeks.
Yes, I've calmed down some. Seeing an administrative officer under heavy burden of medals and being called a great soldier, reignited old resentments. A little time, and input from others, I feel more reasonable.
It's true, my perspective is 40 years old. I'm glad to know that things have improved in the military. I'm also reminded of an article on this site, when Michael picked up a weapon. There's video of a LTC running right into the fore, and taking some shots. At the time I saw it, I thought, 'THERE'S a Leader'.
Other things have changed too. At the time, my four tours were considered a lot of time in-country. Now, soldiers are regularly putting in 7 - 8 and more tours as a matter of course. My helmet's off to them.
There was a lot of resentment during VietNam, and staff officers received preferential treatment. I read an account in a book, of General Westmoreland once flying out to a field position with the hot Thanksgiving meals, and then addressing the troops for so long that the meals were cold. AS IF they had any interest in what he was saying. Having learned, thanks again, Arlene, I looked him up, he was an artillery officer during WWII, most of his awards are non-combat, although there are two awards of the Bronze Star without the V.
I'm glad for this conversation, and the input from everyone. I'll say again, I don't demean Petraeus's ability or accomplishments, or his affair (guys and gals will do what they have to do), and it's good to hear personal accounts from people that actually encountered him.
And, thank you, and everyone in uniform for their service.
-
-
-
-
-
-
This commment is unpublished.I was wrong about his medals. In reading about his awards, a Bronze Star with a V is noted. V is for an act of heroism. How he managed this in a non-combat role, it's not said. Also, Four awards of the Legion of merit, for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements. It seems that the higher the non-combat awards go, the fancier they get. With the exception of the Bronze Star, non of his ribbons are even remotely for combat. I was erroneous in saying his ribbons were earned by the effort and sacrifices of others, I assumed they were combat awards.
-
-
-
This commment is unpublished.Rudy, Hilary Clinton was responsible for the affiar as the Secretary of State. The SEAlS were no longer SEALS and did not work for the CIA.
-
This commment is unpublished.Get your facts straight. They were working for the CIA, not the state dept.They were on a completely different mission.
Petraeus is being put under the bus to protect Obama. This administration doesn't want him to talk.
-
-
This commment is unpublished.